making amends...
interesting conversation tonight...a friend is working on a project for his justice class...the scenario goes like this:
all the males in the class will apologize to all the women in the class for all the oppression put upon them...
so the question was- could this act lead to reconciliation between genders and begin a process in which both males and females move forward in solidarity with and for one another?
would love to know what you think...
posted by Monica @ 11:34 PM
9 comments
9 Comments:
it is like saying sorry for something you have not done, empty, and meaningless. i would say, if we as a society want to go forward, amybe try a little old fashion forgive and forget. wipe the slate clean, than if someone oppress them, we know whom to blame.
I can and will stand on my words. I feel it is a sad state if we continue to blame a man for being born. This will only breed resentment, and surely continue the vicious cycle. I as a man love and respect all women. I have never nor will I ever see myself as a part of this gender inequality. I would think that if an apology that was offered, what would it really mean? Would it really change anything? Would it allow women to across the board, earn the same amount of money as a man? My first thought is no. It is a pipe dream if we would hope and pray that such a simple act, as “saying sorry” would solve anything. The real meat of the issue is respect. If we as a society respected each other we must acknowledge that there is a general difference between man and woman. We must embrace this, not pretend that there is not a difference. This is what is beautiful about the world, difference. However don’t punish one segment because of the sins of a father. As a human, we have compassion and the ability to forgive. This must be what brings us together.
I have to agree that I don't like the idea of the men in the class apologizing to the women in the class. I don't gain anything by this. It is one thing for men to say they recognize that women have been oppressed along the way. It is something different entirely for them to have the finger of blame pointed at them individually and then be forced to apologize.
I think this might be dealing with two separate issues; reconciliation and justice.
I'm not convinced that groups can be reconciled to each other without positive personal relationships which cross the boundaries of those groups. Without those relationships, an apology or pretty much any other reconciliatory statement is a platitude.
From a justice standpoint, an apology doesn't create justice. And, an apology by itself will likely not instigate reform either. It might actually work in reverse if those who apologize now feel that they have been absolved of any complicit guilt they might have; no need to work for justice any longer because payment has been made in the form of an apology.
With that said, I apologize to women everywhere for being "a sexist, egotistical, lying, hypocritical bigot." And for those who might be offended by the attempt at levity in that last sentence, I will apologize to you in person if you let me know.
I agree that men are born into a role of oppressor. As such, men have a responsibility to be proactive in remedying that situation. One of the first steps in doing so is recognizing the ways in which women are still oppressed by men. This requires listening and, again, positive personal relationships. I would like to hear more specific instances of how women, especially those I know, are currently being oppressed by men. Personal citations of oppression are more meaningful to me than generalizations, and can be rectified more easily.
From a more general view, we should recognize that all of us are oppressors by nature, whatever demographic we belong to, whether it be men or women or some other group, or even as individuals. This is our human condition that we (hopefully) constantly fight against. Oppressed groups are not immune from being oppressors, and oppressors are not free from oppression. We demand justice for all, knowing that our efforts will not be perfect. It is in this context that we beg forgiveness and extend forgiveness. Not because we deserve it, but because in forgiving we are forgiven.
Mr. Moore, I am sorry if it seemed if I had taken something personally, I have not. I am just not able to have an empty apology sit well with me. With my statement "I have never nor will I ever see myself as a part of this gender inequality." I stand by this. I am not saying I am not wanting to solve this, however, I am not part of this problem, even as I was born a man, I was raised by women, and quite honestly, with the exception of my father, all of my role models have or are women. I have am just saying I can honestly say I personally am not oppressing anyone. I am saying there maybe be those out there that cling to a shaky power base, that they alone perceive to be theirs alone, and well, it is time we kick them in the teeth and snatch this power base.
I don't think this idea goes far enough. Why don't we give each male a cat-o'-nine-tails and let them whip each other as they apologize? Would that suffice? Would that then constitute adequate justice for historic, systemic, corporate sin and oppression? Heck, let's memorialize the event and encourage future generations of men to self-flagellate as well. Maybe a new annual "Mail Seminarian Self-Flagellation Day" in the quad? Sound fun! Sounds like "progress!"
Here's the deal: This is a crackpot idea. It reeks of the very classism that modern liberals profess to decry. It's shameful and unjust and I hope the men in the class stand up - Opps! What am I saying? - sit for themselves, preferably with middle fingers raised in solidarity. No one should have to fall on the sword and be humiliated for the sins of another.
Did it dawn on the proponent of this whacked notion that the idea actually demeans women? It subtlely implies that they cannot get along with their lives without humiliating someone else.
The feminized men in our culture have been doing a fine job emasculating themselves lately thanks to the modern race-class-sex curriculums that are hallmarks of modern collegiate education. That this "idea" would be formulated at a seminary, by a male, is therefore ultimately not a surprise.
Incidentally, the "system" just today installed Patricia A. Woertz as CEO of Archer-Daniels-Midland (ADM). ADM is a huge commodity company (#56 in the Fortune 500). Their annual revenues approach $36 billion/year.
Who else can we add to the CEO list? How about Brenda C. Barnes (Sara Lee), Mary F. Sammons (Rite Aid), Anne M. Mulcahy (Xerox), Susan M. Ivey (Reynolds American), Andrea Jung (Avon), Marion O. Sandler (Golden West Financial Corp), Paula Rosput Reynolds (Safeco), and Meg Whitman (eBay). Each company mentioned is in the Fortune 500.
Women are now easily ordained and called into parish ministry. Women have moderated the General Assembly. They write, get elected to office, host TV and radio talk shows, run newspapers, pray and preach beautifully, produce records, become tenured professors of theology, own their own companies, and run companies owned by others. Many times they do these things while raising children and caring for elderly parents (like Ms. Woertz).
But let's not get sidetracked by progress and celebrate the huge opportunities that exist for women - instead, let's humiliate the men.
I really appreciate the recognition of "anonynous" with regard to the need for male castigation. The fact that this vastly past due recompense is embraced by one encumbered by the penile appendage gives great hope (dare I say even orgasmic pleasure) to the feminist heart. Here is a site I've discovered for the penile impaired: www.chopthecrop.com. They offer a stunning array of cattails, whips, machettes, and after-the-fact painkillers.
In addition to these useful tools you will also find a copy of the feminist manifesto. I highly recommend this provocative read for the newly enlightened. It's a real page turner!
i knew that people had opinions, but we should not be so vindictive...i only ask these questions for my own seeking and discernment from the community and outside the community in which i live...
part of me feels sad that we can never know how the other feels- truly- walking in someone's shoes isn't enough because we get to take them off when we want...
so now you sit to pee, not much difference than before. you make one ugly woman!
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